>>
>>
>>Thanks Doc for the update!  You mentioned the Baty Search Shaft; what/where is that?  I have lots o memories and photos of Terry's house on Emmit? St.  I'll never forget walking into the house in full party swing. There was a huge Endless Summer poster in the foyer, the Surfaris on the sound system, about sixty longboards propped-up around the outside of the house.  Best of all, a big Nor'wester was building for the weekend.  We went sand surfing at Rosy Mound, grabbed a few pronto pups, and bought a new Wayne Lynch from R.C. Allen's Beach Point Surf Shop, and a Weber from Felix's Marina.  Life was good!  Zionite Jim Hacker had a friend (Rick?) whose parents owned Dog and Suds, so there was free food all weekend. We were there the year the Coast Guard Festival fireworks went all at once, we ran like hell! We even surfed inside the river channel opposite the Coast Guard station.  Grand Haven, and her beautiful women combined to make many a surfari a memorable experience.  Too!
 bad the Milwaukee Clipper stopped running, it sure beat the drive through the industrial nightmare of Chicago and Indiana!  See ya soon, Surf Deep!
 
 

Well Doc, none of my pics show a 4x4 box near Terry's house on Emmett.  So just what is/was this Baty Search business?.. and more importantly, why, whenever we went to Grand Haven 60's thru the 90's, did the radios always seem to play "96 Tears"?  CK, regarding the Manitous and Beavers, I never went there, Dave Irwin and Pat Shoolz were the aquanauts of record.  I have surfed Washington and Rock Islands in Wisconsin.  Sand surfing was done tobaggan-style at Rosy Mound, a sand mining operation south of Grand Haven.  We used an old Phil Wakeboard, about 8 1/2', which came with a long keel-style fin about 3" deep.  Three of us would lug the thing up, sit down and fly down the hill, occaisionally catching air, leaving a rooster tail of sand in our wake.  Years later we took old water skis, shortened them to about 4', and filed down the metal skegs to about 1", put a rope through the nose and non-skid tape on the deck and were able to turn.  By that time Rosy Mound was getting lowe!
r and we went to Warren Dunes, where we got bit by "Sky surfing", built our first hang-gliders and pioneered that sport until we came to our senses...or had the senses knocked out of us!  Surf Deep!
 

Well Doc, What ever happened to R.C. Allen, Rick Sapinski, Terry Lau, and Kurt Pfister?  Does your brother still surf that bonzer of his?  Where are the Pushaw and White bros. today?  Ever run into : Dave Ray, Pat Schoolz, Rich Stebbins, Dave irwin?  Does the "Blue Disease" still defy the test of time? These great mysteries of life have perplexed me greatly in recent years.  Surf Deep!
 

------------------------------------------------------------
Forum: Lakes Michigan/Superior
Author: Aqua Doc
Date: 06/05/100 12:47:11 am
E-Mm
Subject: Re: Doc's budddies 'The Fighting 75th'
Viewed: 24
Message:

Well Steve,

The regiment has taken some casualties.

Of the ones you listed:

R.C. Allen, GLSA co-founder, is teaching Community ED in the area, no longer surfing.

Rick Sapinski, GLSA co-founder, after Grand Haven and started a political button factory in California, probably doesn't surf.

Terry Laug,

I have been e-mailing with him this past week about the treasure, his former GLSA clubhouse is right across the street from the Baty search shaft.  Mr. Cox who used to own the castle across the street told Terry a lot of stories about Five Mile Hill, but Terry can't recall them.  Initally Terry started our with Rick and R.C. and the rest of us but had medical problems.  He still remained the father figurehead of Grand Haven surfing.

Kurt Pfiester

I think I amy have talked to him on an e-mail or forum in the past few months.  I think I surfed with him in the ESA senior finals of 1990.  He might still get wet now and then.

My brother

Will is still surfing strong and has dominated the south pier rights for the past ten years on a cruddy looking piece of funk that has a picture of a pig on it.  It works fine for what he does.  He owns a mint 1975 Lightning Bolt from the Jerry Lopes commune that has never ever touched the water.

Pushaws,

Jim was the first Pushaw I surfed with.  He was a top area goofy-footer and moved off to live in Hawaiiin in the the late sixties.  Started out working in a bakery and surfing.  Now he is some sorth of mountain expert who made recent headlines there rescuing two Danish girls off a mountain top. I don't think he surfs anymore.

Bob was/is probably my main Pushaw surf bud.  He has a beautiful house on Five Mile Hill two down from Terry's old house.  He is trying to pay for it with his wife working insane hours for Federal Express.  He gets out now and then at the South Pier but is starting to look rusty.

Bill is home building/remodeling/repairing in Grand Haven and also gets out now and then and still looks pretty fluid.  I always thought he was the best of the Pushaws.  Him and his twin brother Tom also were the first National snowboard champions.  First and second the first two years.  One year Bill and one year Tom.  Burton boards flew them out east for a few designs, but nothing ever came their way financially from it. They are identical.  I still can't tell them apart.

Steve White is still surfing, not as much on the lake as he used too, but goes to the Outer Banks every summer with his family and camps out at the same park every year.  Howard Bennick, old Grand Surfer was a ranger out there for seventeen years and now owns a resturant in Okracoke (The Porch or something).  When any of us old timers ever make it out there we stop and spend some time with him.  I haven't been there since 1967.

Joe White is into his photography business and does surf now and then at the south pier.

Dave Ray has spent the last 5-6 years remodeling my store on again off again.  I think we just about got it, but there's always more work to do.  Dave still surfs but not quite as much as he used to.  He recently got rescued surfing off the side of the south pier at night.

Pat Schoolz, Rich Stebbins, Dave irwin all kind of dropped out of surfing I think.  Schooltz and Irwin were both GLSA/ESA directors back in the eighties and early nineties before Rick took over.

I have had only about one or two years where I went surfing less than a couple dozen times per season.  That mostly had to do with bad surf conditions, bad timing or a tough business schedule.  One thing that used to be my mainstay was my annual winter move to Mazaylan, Mexico.  I no longer travel out of this region.  Going to places like Sheboygan, Marquette and M-City are just about as adveturesome as anyplace else I could go and I have just as much fun.  Some winter I hope to go to Costa Rica.  I still like to surf as much as ever but over the years I've learn to pace my seasons.  Last season was one of my funnest ever.

There are lots and lots of other surfers you could have asked me about but I think I gave you a good cross-section which probably matches up pretty close to the old crew over there. 

For all the fire and stoke you see around here now, these ranks will thin in time.  Its amazing to me that of all the ESA/GLSA directors only the present ones surf (Jim, Lester, Rick and Eric).  I never really believed much in the assocations but I sure did/do enjoy them and they have always been a great contribution to my surfing life.  The only thing that will slow me down is old age or some phyisical impairment.  I think that I would always want to be part of the scene though. 

I don't think that I will be able to surf much 10 or fifteen years from now unless I can locate somewhere I can surf about every week.  You just start deteriorating too fast when you get really old.  Although I surfed with 'Lawrence' at N. Muskegon and he is 78.  He learned when he was 52 at N. Muskegon and has never surfed anywhere else.  He gets his rides.

Surfing has been a good life for me and I'm looking foward to another round with the lake.  I took off my twenty pound weight belt this winter with exercise and diet and feel light as a feather and almost as quick as ever.

aquadoc....

pt betsie to lenand have some great spots the best for s-w wind is just 
south at frankfort but if the wind has a little more westerly in it a place 
called pyramidpoint on the national lakeshore park will go off and it works 
all the way around to a north - northeast wind but getting there involes 
some hiking but it s worth the trip. also leland can go off has well as
a place called gills peir its an old rock breakwall that has been flatten 
Dont surf over it instead the waves rap and clean but very steep.  and 
there are plenty more places around leland ..hope this helps

stay  stoked

Matt is right, things have changed drastically along Grand Haven's South Pier.  Rocks everywhere, and the beach extends out another 100 feet.  Like Matt said, the whole thing is really freaky. 

I used to run a little underwater salvage business around the pier and at the Spring Lake Yacht Club.  I kept a set of tanks, suit, belt, mask and fins right in that little area behind the bucket seats of my 63 Corvette Stingray (split window red with a black interior, 4-speed, 300/327.)  For twenty bucks, which was kind of a lot in the sixties, I used to go into the channel or lake off the pier and do a 180 degree radial search with an old clothesline.  I found glasses and a watches for people underneath a few inches of silt.  My scuba bud and me explored the whole s. pier underwater starting at shore around the pierhead and down the channel.  That was before they sheathed the piers in sheet steel and you could see the old cribs, rocks and all kinds of tackle boxes, poles, reels and other flutsom and jutsom. 

When I looked at those rocks this evening it reminded me of that.  This has to be some kind of new record.  It will be very interesting surfing there.  It looks like it is way, way too shallow to surf the down ramp unless its a good direction small day.  The 4 and 5 foot surf that used to break there now looks like it will be breaking out past the lighthouse.  Unreal! 

As Matt says, it would be very wise to go out there and rethink your routes jumping in and surfing out.  Access from the beach onto the pier is now extremely easy as the beach extends right out past the ladder.  It's about a two foot step now.  Very easy access onto the pier not as easy getting into the surf!  I think surfing out near the pierhead will be quite the norm this year.  There are a couple decent access spots out there.  The rights along the pier are not going to happen on big days.  If they do happen they will be unridable because the the rocks are either sticking out of or at the water surface for much of the distance. 

I really think the whole surf area has changed there and it will be interesting to see what happens.  Me and the Mattski will keep an eye on it and send along reports.

One other major effect that I can see is the sand/beach/dune thing.  There is lots and lots of new beach!  A good sized dune is building along the south pier approach.  It looks like the Sahara Dessert.  The city and park are going to have a major problem keeping things cleared and a bar could develop in the channel at that point.  They don't call us the Sand Hill City for nothing.  A continual rescession of the lake would replenish the dunes all along this coast.  A few thousand years ago the Native Americans had trouble moving their villages fast enough to keep up with the lake recession. 

I think the whole process might be bad for lake surfing because of the degradation of the the piers and breakwater functionality.  Pretty soon everything will be a beach break.  However, as the water drops, it is easier for the piers to block the wind and chop.  No need for artificial aqua kelp beds.  Damn!  Just when I had my big chance to make a million. 

I'm going to check the water temps, I'm ready to surf!

aquastoked

Our pier emergency call box has been reinstalled for the season.  All publically - used piers should have them.  Our committee with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the city is to use Grand Haven piers as models for other Great Lakes communities, so who knows you might see them popping up in your area some day.  I think 360 cams like Sheboygans are a great safety feature too.  Surfers should paly a big part in this, after all it us on the front lines during these emergencies, ask Jim, Rog and others who have been there and seen the elephant.

Message from Great Lakes Surfers Beach and Pier Safety 
 
 

Looking back to the early 60's, it seems the groups of years that had the best and most rideable waves were years that coincided with above avarage to peak water levels. Cooper and I recall having to park about 500' from Logan and having  to paddle through waist deep water to reach the beach ridge to paddle into the waves.  One day we actually caught by hand two salmon and a trout that swam into the current parking lot from the creek to the south!  This was about 1990.  Wind Point always broke best during high water, and Sheboygan had the best shape when water levels were high.  The Cape, near the state line was by far the best local spot until water levels declined, it was just an awesome lined-up tubing left that gave 100+ yd. rides that just got faster and hotter as it neared shore.  Grand Haven had deep water sand bars that held a large swell without closing out.  Bring on the higher water!  Surf Deep
 

John N, Steve C & forum,

I surfed South Manitou island back in the fall of '97.  It was clean, small and I rode a longboard right off the weatherstation campground.  The 2 mile hike with my pack and boardbag was a killer though.  I have some pics, I printed a couple in a GLSA mag a couple years ago.  On a striaght south the waves can get good on the south facing beach.  We rode the ferry back in some of the heaviest seas I've ever been in (10-15 ft swells in the manitou passage) people were getting sick and rowdy college students were out on the deck getting drenched and nearly thrown off.

I hope to get back up there this year to camp and do a northern Lake Michiagan surf surfari.

Rick
 
 
 
 

>>Here is a killer survey and I hope everyone will respond. Lets share some things with each other!!!!Post a message with your answers!(feel free to add locations, spots or vicinity, and size,water temp)
>>
>>#1. What was your favorite session on the lakes?
      Back in the seventies we had a day we called Super Sunday at Grand Haven.  Waves were six to eight (Lake Michigan measurement) and were breaking just out from the end of the GH south pier.  Water levels were about normal.  The water was about 70 and the air about 80,sunny and there was no wind.  The waves were coming in sww at just the perfect angle and not breaking on the pier but along side of it.  We had about 200 spectators and any water on the pier was left by the wet feet of about 12 or so very exiited surfers.  Much of the hard-core crew had left for surfing the winter in Central America and a few others went exploring up to Ludington.  We jumped off the end, paddled over a few yards and rode beautiful glassy waves all of the 1400 feet to shore.  You could go right and left, catch the reform and the whole nine yards.  To get back to the pierhead you had to pass through the crowd which was patting us on the back and congratulating us on our great wave riding all th!
e way back out.  I'll always remember that day.

>>#2. What was your favorite session on the ocean? (if applicable)

Probably San Blas, Mexico back in the early seventies.  Up to that time San Blas was considered by many the longest breaking wave on the North American continent.  They called it the mile-long ride.  Most rides started at second point which you could enter via the 'Devil's Leap' off the rocks at the head of the point and paddle fast.  It wasn't too bad really, but in the early years we didn't have leashes.
The wave itself has been described by many as being slow except for the take-off at first and second point and a few of the inside sections, but it is a perfect wave that never breaks ahead of itself and just keeps peeling into beautiful Matechen Bay.  I got it best in the summer of 68 with my Hobie Nose Rider.  I still remember dropping and climbing across the faces of those waves, looking ahead on the ten waves ahead of me and seeing one surfer on each wave doing exactly as I was, looking behind me and seeing ten surfers on ten waves behind me doing the same, and about ten surfers walking back up along the beach all spaced at the same intervals.  That place was like a big surfing machine and could handle 30-40 surfers easily if it was working good. It never really compared to the other famous Mexican breaks for juice and power, but it was just a nice tropical place to enjoy some really long rides.  Pepe's Hotel Casino Calon was right on the beach at the foot of the bay and i!
n the morning we could look out and see the white combers marching in around the points as we wolvfed down our pncake breakfast. 

>>#3. What was your biggest day ever?

Probably Olas Altas at Mazatlan during that same summer.  That was the only summer I went to Mexico but thats when that part of Mexico gets the strong consistent swell from the winter storms in the Southern Hemisphere.  Olas Altas is right in the middle of the oldest part of downtown Mazatlan.  It is a pretty good size bay and was it was so big one day that the whole bay was almost closing out, almost ...  Dave Wagemaker and I charged it without much thought.  We had the long boards with no leashes.  Dave got three or four very good rides and I got a couple before I wiped out and had to swim ino the rocks to get my board and almost died.  That was the first time I felt like I was skiing instead of surfing.  It was about 14 foot and it was just like skiing down a mountain.  Looking back it seems kind of reckless and we were lucky to get back out OK.

>>#4. What is your favorite spot when its pumping?(ocean and lakes)

I enjoy the south pier at GH on a good wsw, especially when the wind clocks real fast to North and causes a nice clenup.  Its my home breaOK,
 

Just wanted to let everyone know the new problem off the GRAND HAVEN south pier. Rocks! There are millions of them. The biggest threat to me was a new one exposed right past the point where the pier goes down to the lower level.  Its not out of the water put it pops up about a foot from the sand. 
The reason I think this one is the worst is because it is right at the take off point or a little closer. If you were to fall on a wave right off the pier that is where you would probably fall. Scarry. I think it is because the lower water levels. I swear to god the water is only WAIST DEEP at the first lighthouse. I always thoought the rocks started where the latter after the lighthouse was but I was wrong. ANOTHER big thing that freaked me out was the rocks just past the first lighthouse. It looks like slabs from under the pier stid out and formed caves with other rocks. I saw like 3 different caves that a body could easly fit in. That is so freaky. 
You guys should go out there and get a good look at it before you are surfing often. Wherever you are from you should take a walk on a flat day.
I bet you will be suprised. I know where I can and cant jump off now. Also i know where I shouldn't fall.

Check it out and tell me what you think,
Matt Smolenski

Sorry I didn't get to post during the party last night Roger.when you make margaritas with tequila, triple sec and Costa Rican guaro(spelling?)
TIME HAS A WAY OF DISAPPEARING ON YOU.:-)
Needless to say we had a hell of a time,and the dawn patrol at the Bridge this morning was great too...We are going for a three day swell run here,east at thirty knots tonight will guarantee another huge dawn patrol tomorrow forsure.!!!!!Now if i could just shake this hang around headache...:-)
KEEP YER FINS IN THE FACE
       FINNIGAN THE BOOG
 

STEVE CESKOWSKI (04/30/00 at 1:43 pm) wrote:

>>Hey Ski,how is it goin'? Yeah, looks like the Elbow isn't going to work well with our low water(breaks clear to the lighthouse!) but'we'll have to wait for a big blow from the south to see what it does. you're right! time to travel...see ya in the...WATER???
>>Camp Logan, as Zion's premier spot is known is facing a crisis with sand.  Now you'd think with record low lake levels, we wouls have an abundance of sand, but we don't.  Logan has been scoured by an interruption of sand drift caused by the artificial structures associated with North Point Marina in Winthrop Harbor.  The "Bay" in Winthrop Harbor has inversely become choked with sand.  The result is that the sandbars that normally line up the wave in long peelers and A-frames are all askew.  The lesson is that it's not nice to mess with 'mother nature."  Logan last broke well in '98, since then it's been too deep for good waves to break around the point with any shape.  Looking back since the 60's, it seems that we have experienced cycles of good and bad surfing years.  The years 66-70, 75-79, 86-87, 89-96, really stand out as being good cycles of surfing.  Surf spots are subject to change in popularity according to cycles, water depth, sand flow, etc.  Places that used to be!
 hot, such as "The Cape" are surfed only once in a while.  I'm sure da boyz in Sheboygan are experiencing the same problems at their "Jetties" and "Elbow".  When I wiped on a takeoff at the Elbow last year I got rolled on the bottom, which indicates how shallow this break has become.  I guess the lesson to be learned is to adapt, be patient, and be willing to travel.  Traveling is how we all got to know each other in the days before "e" anyway.  If those boys down in Whiting don't mind, I might take a trip their way.  I haven't surfed IPSCO since the 70's!  Surf Deep!
>>
 

teek phippen

No this isn't about some new waveriding gimmick, but about what happened between year cycles of surf.  What happened in the "off years" between cycles of good years?  The Bear answered it best when he said," move inland, get married, work, taxes, the whole nine-yards!"  Looking back, of the thirty or so surfers in the Dunes Beach Surf Club, only Pat Cooper and I still surf.  Even then, there were a couple of years in the late 70's and early 80's when we went out only once or twice a year.  We had our home breaks to ourselves for over a dozen years.  The Sheboygan crew probably emerged as the most cohesive unit by far.  I still surf with five or six of 'da boyz' that I rode with in the 60's.  The key is to stay stoked, hang tight with your friends, and be willing to travel during the "dry" years. As the Bears said, "your friends are all you got come hell or high water."  There's much wisdom here for all the newbies on the Lakes.  Surf Deep... for the long run!
 

>>Just a quickie about water levels.  The whole lakes region used to have a Caribbean-like climate, with warm aquamarine waters and nice sand beaches.  At the end of the last ice age (don't remember how many million years ago it was), the glacier melted and slowly retreated to the NE, leaving a huge volume of melt water behind to form a huge lake.  Since then the lakes have been getting smaller (and shallower) for a couple reasons. 1) Water levels simply dropped as water was carried overland out of the region. 2) Isostatic rebound.  The glaciers were a mile-or-so thick, putting a huge amount of weight on the land.  The land compressed and sank under this weight.  Once the glaciers retreated, the land started to VERY slowly rebound, bringing the lake beds to higher elevations.  Though little rebound is still happening on the lakes (<1/4 inch per year in northern Superior to 0"/yr in southern Lake Michigan), it is a little more prominent in Hudson Bay.
>>
>>John
 
 

Brian,

Sounds like you had one helluva time in Maine!  Too bad we didn't bump into each other at the beach (though I usually keep to myself).

I have heard that Higgins has been better lately than in past years, must have had the right combination of swell directions to establish some decent banks there for a change.  How did Pine Point look?  I was thinking of checking it but opted for Lefty's, I'm sure it was the better option anyway.  I have had some great waves at pine point before, long fast rides on that rivermouth sandbar left at near-low tide.  But Lefty's!, ahhhh...

Lefty's is certainly the best left that I know of in Maine, I would almost call it a world class break.  I suppose the break itself IS indeed world class, but the swell hitting it rarely is.  The shore at Lefty's faces west, and the waves are heading almost due north as they come in there and peel along the bar at lower tide.  On a respectable day there the rides are 30+ seconds long, I even got a ride that must have been 50 seconds!  These rides were full-on rides too, constantly hitting the lip, bottom turning, back to the lip, botom turn, lip, etc, etc!  Only one brief 5 second soft section, otherwise nothin' but shape!  I rode 3 boards here, a 9'2, 8'0, and a 7'3 funshape.  All boards were great for the respective conditions, and the funshape was ideal for the best day.  There were a few shortboarders out there also, in case that's your vehicle of choice.  This wave is not to be missed when in Maine and a decent E-NE swell is out there.

I won't tell you exactly where it is, I'll let you use your lakes skills to find it for yourself. :-) I can tell you that it's between Kennebunk and Fortunes Rocks, it's the only spot offshore on an east wind, and it's similar to Pine Point (but better).  To give any Aussies out there something to picture, the setup is similar to Green Island (NSW) when a solid NE swell is running.

What brought you to Maine Brian?  I try to get there every couple months, we should connect one time.

John

>>#1. What was your favorite session on the lakes?

"The day where I got chased by Nipsco Guards! At Billies, springsuit, overhead, and the Coast Guard Cutters were telling everyone to get out of the water!"(close second was last session with hoop and everyone and the party afterwards!! BEER MACHINES ARE THE COOLSEST INVENTIONS!!)

>>#2. What was your favorite session on the ocean? (if applicable)

My brother and I after surfing 10ft+ Reef Road, and then I got busted for a little weed, went to Cape Canaveral and surfed head high and super fun almost lake like peelers until dark. It was the best session!!

>>#3. What was your biggest day ever?

Hurricane Luis!! 150 mph winds!! 200 miles off shore of Florida, manditory evacuation and we stayed and surf 17th street cocoa beach and it had up to 17ft++ faces  VERY SCARY!!

>>#4. What is your favorite spot when its pumping?(ocean and lakes)

Sebastian Inlet 

>>#5. What was your best trip?

Costa and New Jersey..Wish i could go Roger and Hoopster:(
>>#6. What place in the world would you want to surf if $ wasnt an object?

Kirra Australia....HAVE YOU GUYS SEEN THOSE RIGHTS????? UNREAL!
>>#7. Where would you move in the U.S. if popssible to surf?(lake or ocean)

My hometown cocoa beach fl!!!!
>>

>>

The bridge crew is located in the corners of the twisted minds of some western Lake Ontario surfers.  Where are we located?  Everywhere.  Stare deep into the  barrel and you will find one of us.  And yes, we are very cool.

Actually, the bridge crew is a group of surfers from the hamilton area that became great friends in the early nineties when surfing in our area was really just beginning.  Eventhough there are some among us who claim to have surfed since the sixties, the bridge crew is the first group of surfers who surfed year round in this area with the invention of better wetsuits.  In a nut shell, we just a group of guys who surf.  Our leader is Craig Rogers.  He is a great guy who welcomes all new comers with open arms and has some great parties.

P.S. The bridge is breaking today.
 

Now let us put the issue of "secret spots" aside for a moment and let us consider the following:
If we put the name of the break and its location on EVERY photo that is posted are we not then lessening our desire to use our imagination and be inspired to try and find the mystery wave in the photo regardless of location. I know that if I see an epic photo of a wave, and the caption simply reads Illinois, or Minnesota or Lake Ontario, I am going to be day- dreaming for days about that wave and be inspired for my next trip or session. It simply does not have the same effect if you know the place the photo was taken and then rock up at that spot and expect to find the same thing that was in the photo in the first place. It is as much about intrigue and anticipation as it is about paranoia and secrets. We don't have to ruin EVERY good photo by divulging the spot, please save some for those us who don't want the instant gratification that comes with knowing where every single photo was taken and when. Because for me instant gratification and surfing don't belong in the same sen!
tence. One requires instant rewards and the other requires patience, preparation, knowledge and expectation for those few fleeting moments of gratification you get when you are actually riding the waves.
I am not telling anyone what to do, I am simply saying that I like a little intrigue and mystery now and then.
salud and surf
rob.

  Hey now,
 I thought some might enjoy this, especially those who often hear the "you can't surf the lake!" bit. 
 One day last fall Tom, probably Terry and Chuck and maybe others(those sessions are kinda hazy in the 'ol memory bank), and myself were surfing washington park when it was still halfway decent with the higher levels. We're out at the elbow, jumpin' off the rocks for easier access, when some guy ask's Peeler and I, "Hey, what ocean is this?"! Hot damn! I don't even remember what we said- ya know, Michigan City aint home to the brightest people in the world, that's for sure. 
                          happy surfun,
                                    Ryan
 

------------------------------------------------------------
 

Todd.
I think that you raise a good point when you say that there is more than a black and white version of this issue.
I guess my first thought is this;
Go where you want 
Do what you want
and live the way you want to live.
But be humble and respect the lifes of the people whose homes or surf spots you happen to pass through. We are losing numerous cultures everyday because some people think they have more of an inherant right to the world than others, and think they have the right to supress other people.
The same applies here. If locals want to talk about their spots fine, but the rest of us are merely visitors and we should behave as such. Be gracious for the opportunities the lakes give us. What we do is a priviledge not a right.
To quote Wayne Lynch from the movie "litmus".
"We will never learn anything about life or surfing unless we can learn humility".
Wayne has pioneered numerous breaks in Victoria and he also talks about the joy that he gets from sharing his findings.
There is a happy medium out there. We just need to take every case on its own merits. 
Take it easy
rob. 

edmund  (03/09/00 at 8:29 pm) wrote:

>>sucked
>>yea edmund did not shape up to be what was forecast got to get wet though.water is warming nicely.got a 2hr. windsurf session then a 1.5 hr. surf session when the wind died in on shore slop was fun though. wind on this end of lake started blowing at 1pm after frontal passage.wind only blew 20+ knots for a couple hrs. so not much time for surf to build a windsurf friend of my got a longboard also so we have company in the juice.he bought a TAKAYAMAi belive.   joe 
>>The Gods of Surf were not with me today. Ended up staying home with a sick child today. My wife got home at 4:45 so I sped up to Edgewater, as that is the closest break to me. Got in the water at 5:45 and found 1-2 footers that where very weak. Not enough juice to even catch on my 7'11". I ended up paddling around for some exercise and tried to catch some shore break, but those were just rolling also. The water is warming up though and the warm water guys will be getting out soon.
>>
>>Saturday looks like it may be good with a NE to 30knots predicted. Unforunately my wife is out of town this weekend so, unless I get a babysitter, I am out of the lineup.
>>
>>peace
>>edmund

Hello to all of my GL friends:

1. I just got back from Va. Beach. No luck in finding a board, but it was great to be back at the ocean. As for conditions, the waves were head high at times, but the best breaks can get really crowded. Especially in the summer when surfing is restricted to such a small area (1st street, I think). Nice place, but for surfing trips I'll stick w/ NJ or explore NC more.

2. I talked to Vince yesterday. He's currently shaping this monstrosity-longboard! He started by gluing 17 pine 2by 4's together, side by side. Then after shaping, he's going to take it apart and hollow out the middle. I told him he's going to need an ox to haul this "board" onto the beach.

3. Mike Miller, you asked me why Surfrider Ohio isn't taking shape. The reason is because I don't think the time is right. It's frustrating because Lake Erie needs so much attention NOW, but it's nearly impossible to get enough people to do anything about it. To put it bluntly, most people in Ohio could care less about the coastline. Right now I don't have the time or the resolve to convince millions of people otherwise. I'm not optimistic about this.

4. Craig, thanks for maintaining the forum. Your site is an asset for all surfers. Information is not the enemy, but rather an essential benefit for us. And I don't see how overcrowding can be an issue on the Lakes. There are thousands of miles of coastline and relatively few surfers! This doesn't mean that we should divulge every good spot; that would spoil some of the adventure. I just don't think that people should overreact over the idea that the entire surfing world will flock to their "secret" spot, 800 miles from the nearest ocean.

Keep the aloha spirit,

Scott Ditzenberger
 

Hey Finz,
The board is holding up well. I have it with me now and will try to surf
Mass this coming Saturday with it. 

As for the website, just send me the stuff and I will put up a web page for you on my domain, lakesurf.com. Anytime.

Good to know that at least one legacy lake surfer appreciates that the web is NO threat to lake surfing!
craig

FINZ  (03/09/00 at 9:47 pm) wrote:

>>THANKS FOR THE PLUG CRAIG!!!
>>I HOPE YOURS IS HOLDING UP WELL?MY 45 INCH BOARD IS DELAMING ABIT ON THE DECK BY MY ELBOW DENTS.(IT HAS SEEN IT'S SHARE OF H-BAY)THE NEW BOARDS'DECKS,AND BOTTOMS WILL BE HEAT LAMINATED TO THE CORES.THIS WILL ELIMINATE ANY DELAM PROBLEMS FOR GOOD.
>>WELL I SAID IT BEFORE AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN.
>>SURF HARD AND LIVE LARGE
>>      FINZ
>> 
>>
>>P.S I WILL HAVE MY SHIRTS READY FOR THIS SEASON.PERHAPS WE COULD DISCUSS THAT WEB PAGE SOMEDAY???
>>
 
 

I agree with 'Shawna' these are side currents. 
BTW, in size Waikiki has the same effect, stronger than
one might think. 
I have some opinions about the channels, but correct
me if I am wrong but the channels do not move
very frequently at Greenwood.
Aloha from flat Maui.
craig
 

John Newgard (04/25/00 at 11:34 am) wrote:

>>Shawna,
>>
>>You wrote: "I have not figured out what conditions create the strongest currents, since we have had weak currents with strong wind or bigger waves years ago when the Lake level was higher".
>>
>>Higher waves = higher velocities:
>>Theoretically, currents are caused by something called "radiation stress".  This causes wave set-up and set-down.  At the break point, the water level is depressed, whereas from the break point shoreward the water level increases so that there is a "wedge" of water piled up against the shore.  When the wave heights and bottom contours aren't uniform all along the beach (almost always), unevenness in the wave set-up causes currents to occur.  Higher wave height causes higher radiation stress greater potential imbalances in set-up along the beach, and so higher current velocities. 
>>
>>Currents can also be strongly affected by bathymetry, i.e. bars.  Water is funneled through gaps in bars, causing stronger currents.  So, given two days with identical wave conditions, longshore and rip currents could be much stronger on a beach with pronounced longshore bars.
>>
>>Wind should not affect currents much, though it will tend to blow you down the beach (or offshore if you're lucky! :-). 
>>
>>Sorry for getting so technical, but it sounds like Shawna is quite curious about currents.
>>
>>John 
 
 

joe krineski (03/12/00 at 5:46 pm) wrote:

>>bummer-city today after listning to the ne wind blowing 30 knots all nite at a ne facing beach then switching to west and dying just before dawn it was gonna be classic then i had to get called into work never F--KING FAILS by the time we got there at noon it was flat.noo worry try to get the high pressure building wind coming in in dunkirk but no session today surf or windsurf.hope someone had better luck than us

Sorry to hear that, it turned out to be a good weekend here in Ctown. Didn't make it out Saturday, but heard it was chest high on the NE at Edgewater. Sunday I started at Huntington, was using my 7'3" and having trouble taking off. I'd jump up on the board and fall right off. Kook City.

I then left my wetsuit on and headed to Edgewater (the girl at Wendy's drive thru, was looking at me kind of weird). Got there a bit after 1PM and took out the 7'11" and caught some great rides. Strong waves in the 4 foot range.

Kind of fun walking through the snow (2-4 inches) to get to the water, but the number of dead fish was kind of freaky. They all were floating on the inside in a kind of fish belt (think asteroid belt). Paddling through them was weird, but a least they weren't floating in the line up.

Spent an hour at Huntington and another hour at Edgewater with noone else out. The sun was shining so that helped with the cold some, all in all a good day to be out.
 

peace
edmund
 

I am on this side of the lake and I can help you out.  I am located down towards St. Joe, but I come up to Holland or South Haven sometimes.  As far as wetsuits, you could try Chapter 11 Sports Inc located at 114 W Savidge St Spring Lake, MI 49456-1603 Phone: (616) 842-9244.  Right now, you can surf comfortably with a 4/3 suit, booties and gloves.  Just a 3/2 suit would allow you to surf from late May to October. Last year in July, the water temperature in St. Joe reached 82 degrees, so you didn't even need a wetsuit.  Surf is not as frequent in the summer, so the days of surfing without a wetsuit are minimal. If you want to surf from December to March, you need at least a 5/4/3 or a 6/5/4 hooded suit.  Chapter 11 sells boards.  I believe they rent them too.  I also have an extra board you could use.  Before you do anything, you need a wetsuit, so that is the first priority.  The type you get depends on how much of the year you want to surf  I have some extra suits that are ki!
nd of old, but unless you are 6 feet tall and weigh 165 pounds, they won't fit, and therefore won't keep you warm.  Don't worry about getting hurt.  I do a lot of surfing and have never been seriously injured or seen anyone get seriously injured.  Sorry about not replying to your first message.  I get a lot of people that come on the forum requesting advice about learning to surf, and I go to the trouble of replying and then never hear from them again.  You sound like you are serious though.  My email address is glsurfer@skibuff.com  feel free to contact me if you have any questions or comments. 

The "piers" I described were all solid concrete structures.  Most people around here call those piers.  When I said jetty, I was referring to rocks piled up in a line from the shore to protect the harbor.  I guess what I was referring to as "piers" were still jetties by your definition.  I don't know of any true piers on the Lake in Indiana or in Michigan south of Grand Haven.  At Saugatuck and St. Joe their are some remnants of old wooden piles that I assume used to support piers.  That would be cool to have some piers, so some of the more experienced surfers could go out and "shoot the pier".

John Newgard (04/18/00 at 9:38 am) wrote:

>>Hi All,
>>
>>Great posts about surfing with structures!  I had the feeling a lot of you guys surfed in and around piers, etc.
>>
>>I think there are inconsistencies in our use of terms, making it hard to picture some of the spots you've described.  So, how about a few definitions
>>
>>Pier: structure built perpendicular to shore, usually supported by piles.
>>***Are some of you guys talking about piers as "solid" structures?  Maybe you could mention this in your descriptions?
>>
>>Jetty: solid structure perpendicular to shore, usually in pairs, designed to keep channels deep
>>
>>Groyne: generally shorter structure perpendicular to shore, made of rock, sheet piling, timber, designed to trap sand that travels along shore
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>John
>>Ottawa, Canad
 

Drew Marquis
 

John Newgard (04/17/00 at 7:42 pm) wrote:

>>Do you surf at such a spot?  Of the usual spots you surf, how many would fall into this "manmade" category?
 
 

I mainly surf at 4 spots in Ohio.

Avon Lake power plant, which has a fishing pier to the west and a water discharge jetty to the east, creating a little bay.

Huntington Park, which has I think 4 jetties/groynes that clean up a NW pretty well.

Edgewater which has a jetties sticking out that you can use to get to the outside. See http://www.lakeparty.com/surf for an aerial photo of the Edge.

Mentor Headlands, we surf the beach break, though the lighthouse is on a pier to the east, I don't anyone who surfed around the pier.
 

My defintions of pier is a concrete and rock walk way from which you could fish, and a jetty is a pile of rocks not intended for foot traffic.

keep on surfing
edmund
 

Following the thread on manmade structures and the lack of the 'Huntington style pier' for us brave skillful surfers to shoot.  Those types of piers on a much, much, smaller scale were quite prevelent along the beaches of the Great Lakes at the end of the 19th and begining of the 20th century when roads out to the beaches were non-existent along with the automobiles to use them.  At Grand Haven the packet steamer 'Fannie May' took passengers out the channel and delivered them to the Cap Walker pier which was built for that purpose.  It actually looked more like a alrge dock rather than a pier.  Dave Wagemaker did shoot over the remains of that pier to take the finals in the 68 contest.  It was pretty exciting to watch.
   The following story is from the Grand Haven Daily Tribune, August 11, 1902.  I also have pictures of this pier which was usually built (or rebuilt) in the spring and taken down or washed down in the fall.  If the waves didn't get it the ice surely did.

Here's the story:

Pier Collapsed. 
   Late yesterday afternoon, the pier leading into Lake Michigan from the new pavilion at Highland Park, collapsed while a large number of people were on it.  Nearly all were precipitated into the cold waters of the lake.  A majority of the crowd were women and there were one or two children.  A scene of great excitement ensued with fully twenty-five people engaged in a wild struggle, and panic stricken in the water. 
   There is about four feet of water where the pier collapsed, but in the excitement many thought it much deeper, and remained struggling in the water when they could easily have waded ashore.  At the time of the 
accident there were many people on the beach, and they, as well as the nearby cottagers hurried to the water and rushed in to aid the struggling people.  Several of the unfortunates were paralyzed with fright and cold 
and were utterly unable to do anything for themselves.  Undoubtedly, if help had not been near several would have drowned. 
   Dr. John Mieras of this city took a leading part in the work of rescue and dashed into the water bringing to shore several women who had been thrown from the pier.  Mr. Bennet of Grand Rapids, Foster Renwick, Tracy Hadden, Louis Tebbetts, William Dale, Mr. Schmidt of this city and others, assisted in rescuing the struggling people.  The cottagers very kindly threw open their homes and the unfortunate people were taken there to dry and change their wearing apparel.  One Grand Haven lady was carried to a cottage unconscious and was in serious condition from cold and nervous shock for several hours after the accident.  At least one other woman was in condition when taken from the  water, and had to be revived by the life savers' method of resuscitation.  One of the rescue party fell from exhaustion, after assisting in carrying several people from the water. 
   Fortunately the accident was attended by no serious results unless the exposure resulting from the cold water should get in its work upon the victims of the collapse.  there were not many local people on the pier 
when the accident occurred, most of them being Grand Rapids visitors and cottagers.   The entire Park was excited by the occurrence and several hours after it occurred, people were engaged in fishing up articles of 
wearing apparel.  There was some sea at the time of the accident and the temperature of the water was down to 60 degrees. 
   Mr. Schmidt of this city, who witnessed the accident, says that it resulted from the crowd running out to the end of the pier to see a passing boat.  The pier he said was in good shape but could not stand the weight.  Mr. Shmidt says that one entire family from Coopersville, consisting of a husband, wife and two children were thrown in the water but got out all right. 
 
 

Bob Beaton
 

So, this is no sh*t also.

Rob Jagger and myself wher surfin the always popular
South Haven south beach in fun 3 foot wind slop and
lo and behold we spot a waterspout about 1 mile out!
There were more guys out that day but I dont know who
the hell they were. If they read this they will back
me up. Anyway, the spout makes it's way right over our
lineup, No shit, and it's BIG. The sound was the most
intimidating thing about it as it zipped by at about
25 MPH and knocked the crap out of a bunch of tree's
on the bluff!! Before it hit Jagger yell's at me
"Johnny,what do we DOOOO!! Like I fucking know! I just
dove when I lost my nerve and nobody was hurt, thank
God. Probably my most bizzare day surfin. All true,
no filler. Stay wet,

Johnny
 

>>terrence Robinson
>>Question for all yaw.    I am currently in an argumet with a female from San Francisco who says boogie boarding is most often done without fins.  Yes or no.

Most of the time I see boogie boarders, they are in pretty close to the beach, and usually happen to just be little kids playing in the shorebreak. They often don't have fins, so I would say that the majority of boogie boarders I see don't use fins. HOWEVER, the more serious guys/gals I see paddling out into the big stuff have fins. In some places, one would have a heck of a time just getting out to the main break without fins. Fins definitely make for an easier time getting out and catching more waves. They even have fins designed specifically for boogie boarders. Hasn't she seen these?

    She also believes we cannot surf the great lakes.  feedback please--- I am pissed

 'No need to get pissed about it. Some people are just ignorant about some things, such as the notion of surfing without having any consideration for sharks and 'cudas. Just show her the website or give her the URL. I can see how she might think you can't surf here. Without a good wind, the lakes are mostly flat, compared to the ocean. I also surfed here in Chicago for over a year before I saw anybody else out. When I finally got a computer, I went online and found out about ESA-GLC. Then I kept running into people over in Michigan City and at Kemil last summer.

Da Kommando
Chicago IL
 

OK, we'll consider a pier a solid and vertical structure (or pile-supported structure) built perpendicular to shore, used for berthing ships/boats, fishing, walking, etc.

For the piles of rocks...if they are piled perpendicular to shore and nowhere near a river or harbour inlet, it's a GROYNE (groin).  If the rock structure extends out next to a river/harbor, it's a JETTY.  If the rock structure is designed to protect a harbor or piece of shoreline by causing waves to break (generally facing into the waves, not just perpendicular to shore), then it's a BREAKWATER.

Sorry to drag out the definitions, I'm just used to a "common language" used in coastal engineering.  I'll adapt to the Gt Lakes surfer definitions though. :-)

john
Ottawa, Canada

No offense but let's refer to them by their common name, bodyboards. The Boogie Board was a specific model created by Tom Morey... The Morey Boogie Board, but that was during the 70's. The name boogie board conjures up images of little kids dragging their boards across the sand by the leash. That's a bit hard these days with coiled leashes though...

Fins are needed if you're at all going to take bodyboarding seriously. A bodyboard is not as bouyant as a surfboard and therefore fins aid in the extra boost you need to takeoff and drop into a wave... plus fins are necessary to paddle out through shorebreak... once again you're only dealing with 43 inches of foam as opposed to 8 feet of foam and fiberglass...

I'll probably catch a lotta shit for posting, but as a mostly full time sponger I'm just trying to bring a bit more respect to the form of wave riding...

I'd rather be a sponge or a lid head than a booger...

>>
>>What kind of wax does anyone recommend

Coldwater wax is used for most of the year here. The water temp doesn't get above 60 degrees until summer. You could also use a non-slip board, or traction pads. Last year I even saw a rubberized coating that can be applied to a board, which would last alot longer than wax, and isn't as temperature-sensitive. For something like that, you would probably have to mail-order it or travel somewhere else. I've never seen the rubberized stuff in a local shop.

 and where is the best place to get it?

Windward Sports usually carries wax. They also sell wetsuits, booties, gloves, hoods, and even the occasional board. Their prices and selection will drive you up the wall though. They are mostly a sailboard/sk8/snowboard shop. They are on Clark St, just north of Belmont, in Chicago. There are a few other places around (sk8board/snowboard shops) that carry wax occasionally, but they aren't reliable sources. For better prices on suits and whatnot, you may have the best luck at like Sportmart, Sports Authority, or a dive shop. For boards, you will either have to mail-order, travel to the coast, or locate a local shaper (GOOD LUCK!).
 

Da Kommando
Chicago IL

John & forum,

On the eastern shore of Lake Michigan we have many breaks where we use the manmade structures.  Breakwalls and  piers are the common areas in which we surf.  Grand Haven south pier has a peaking pier reflection type wave on a strong SW/W windswell, the waves bounce off and break along the pier wall and form into big a-frame peaks. Not always the best of waves but it can get good. On some days,  if all the conditions are right, you can get some nice fast drops and a few snaps on some thick powerful peaks.

We use the elbow of the North Muskegon pier to board launch from and the end of the Holland St. park pier for a quick launch also. The  Macatawa(Holland south side) elbow is a safe shelter to paddle out and there's  a good rip to shoot you outside quickly to the big sets breaking outside the elbow.  South Haven's south pier is rather long and really cleans up a big north/northwest swell, look for us charging the sets just off the end on a big day, head high, hairy drops on a cranking day are what it's all about.   Yes, we haave to take advantage of our manmade structures, they benefit us, the great lakes surfer greatly, we must not take them for granted.

ride the wild surf....

Rick

Most spots I surf are enhanced by man made structures.  I would venture to say that most people in the region from the Illinois border up to Grand Haven surf areas with man made structures more frequently.  Since this area of the Lake does not have significant natural irregularities in the shoreline such as point breaks and bays, it gets really "victory at sea" on days with high winds and big waves.  You can get good waves at an open beach, but it is usually on a smaller day or clean up.  I will now attempt to run down all of my usual spots and the man made structures present.

Shooters:  a bay which I assume is man made, lined with rocks and concrete with re-bar sticking out just waiting to impale you if you get washed in.

Michigan City:  A curved concrete pier with a breakwater at an angle to the west.  It does a great job of filtering out the short period choppy waves.

New Buffalo:  Two rather short jetties.

St. Joe:  A nice long straight pier that keeps the surf in control on all but the biggest days.  The north pier has a light house and is slightly longer than the south pier.

South Haven:  A short straight pier.  A light house on the south pier.  The waves break well out beyond the pier on big days.

Saugatuck.  About the same pier set up as South Haven located about a mile hike from Oval Beach.

Holland:  An interesting combination of rocks and a concrete pier.  It has some curve to it, and so doesn't block the waves as much as a straight pier, so it may get victory at sea easier, but I only go up there on South winds, when it is usually not that big and the waves are approaching at a nice angle to the shore, so it is almost always nice and peeling when I am there.

Grand Haven.  Similar to St. Joe, but the piers are a little shorter.  Go to Greg's Lake Michigan page at http://web.utk.edu/~schmidtg/mi.htm and click on the Great Lakes surf pictures link to see some pictures of people riding by the pier.  Grand Haven locals generally surf the windward side of the pier for a wedge effect that generates more power.  I and some others, prefer the leeward side which is cleaner generally, and works like an artificial point break.

Muskegon:  Check the webcam link on Greg's page and see for yourself.

John Newgard (04/17/00 at 7:42 pm) wrote:

>>As we all know, coastal structures such as groynes, jetties, breakwaters, wharfs, etc. can have a positive impact on wave quality.  Such structures can impound sand, shelter a break from the wind and short-period waves (noise), and they can even on rare occasions make great peaks due to reflections (eg. the Wedge, Grand Marais MI).
>>
>>Do you surf at such a spot?  Of the usual spots you surf, how many would fall into this "manmade" category?
>>
>>John
>>
>>P.S. Though I have surfed some spots like this, none of the better spots in eastern Lake Ontario are like this
 

Drew Marquis
 

I liked the no wave thing, I was walking out onto the
South Haven pier on our last big NW, it was sunny and
I was using my 9'6" Kia Nalu and sporting a big black
5 mil wetsuit plus hood etc... and this guy asked me
if I was "going to go surfing"? Once a guy told me it
was illegal to surf on Lake Michigan, that was in one
of the northern burb's in Chicago. This one takes the
cake... I used to surf the piers at Saugatuck MI . once
I walked down their through the dunes because the beach
walk was way too windy for the mile hike with a board.
the dunes cut the wind, anyway, I breach this hill and
ofcourse stumble on 4 guys chewing on each other down
in the hollow. It's fag central in the dunes back their
and that was a clear reminder. All true, no filler.
stay wet.
johnny

John Newgard (04/17/00 at 7:42 pm) wrote:

>>As we all know, coastal structures such as groynes, jetties, breakwaters, wharfs, etc. can have a positive impact on wave quality.  Such structures can impound sand, shelter a break from the wind and short-period waves (noise), and they can even on rare occasions make great peaks due to reflections (eg. the Wedge, Grand Marais MI).
>>
>>Do you surf at such a spot?

 Even in FL and CA, we often surfed spots like the piers at Cocoa Beach or Oceanside, which pile up the waves and offer a cleaner break on choppy days. 
 Here around Chicago, I've used the "jetty" at Washington Park in Michigan City IN on super choppy days. Sometimes the slight northern angle of Foster Beach starts piling up a little bit when Montrose is still just barely bigger than ankle-high. You just have to really watch out for all the rocks. Dempster Beach in Evanston also has a little jetty by their fieldhouse that piles up nicely at times. Other than that, I kind of like the long stretches of open shoreline at Kemil, Montrose, and the eastern side of Washington Park. Since I'm a pretty weak paddler, I just have to watch my drift on windy days...or I end up a mile down the beach from where I first stepped in. This was also a serious consideration at Playalinda in Titusville FL. The wind and currents could carry you a few miles down the shore, without you even realizing it.

  Of the usual spots you surf, how many would fall into this "manmade" category?

 I would have to say that almost half of them do. Some of the ones without man-made structures have natural features that make them pile up though. Of some of the places I've seen around the country, Sebastian Inlet, most of Santa Barbara County's spots (Channel Islands), the little point at Kemil, and the curve of the shore up at Illinois State Park are all natural features that can make for decent break.

>>P.S. Though I have surfed some spots like this, none of the better spots in eastern Lake Ontario are like this

 What makes them go off? What are the bottoms like? Hard or soft? Do the bottoms slope out really gradually, or do they drop right off? Does the shoreline curve at all?

Da Kommando
Chicago IL

ONE BIG QUESTION,RYAN....DO YOU HAVE A CAR?????
YOU ARE IN A PRIME LOCATION FOR SURF.LEAMINGTON PIER IS GOOD AND THE PARK NEAR THERE THAT EDMUND WAS TALKING ABOUT COULD BE WHEATLY PROVINCIAL PARK.
IF YOU DO HAVE WHEELS THEN YOU CAN GET UP TO LAKE HURON.THE SOUTHERN END OF THE LAKE HAS PLENTY OF GREAT SPOTS THAT WE SURF REGULARLY.(ALTHOUGH IT IS A THREE HOUR DRIVE FOR US )THEY ALL PRODUCE GREAT WAVES.SARNIA HAS A PARK CALLED HURONVIEW AND THAT IS THE CLOSEST TO YOU.THAT IS THE PLACE I SURFED MY FIRST E.S.A GREATLAKES DISTRICT CONTEST BACK TEN YEARS AGO.THE WAVE THERE IS NICE AND THE WATER IS BLUE MOST OF THE TIME.IT IS ALSO VERY FORGIVING TO NEW SURFERS.(SANDBOTTOM,JUST WATCH OUT FOR THE JETTIES)
THE CENTRAL COAST OF LAKE ERIE IS FULL OF SPOTS.THE WATER AROUND YOU AND THE REST OF THE CENTRAL COAST WILL GET VERY BROWN WHEN THE SWELLS COME.THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE RED AND BROWN CLAY CLIFFS THAT LINE THE COAST.(MAKE SURE THAT YOU DON,T WEAR ANY GOOD SHIRTS AFTER SURFING UNTIL YOU GET A SHOWER THE STAINS WILL NOT COME OUT...)
AS FOR BOARDS...I RIDE A LID(BODYBOARD)AND THE OTHER GUYS IN OUR CREW RIDE SHORT AND LONGBOARDS DEPENDING ON THE WAVE.THE BODYBOARD OR LONGBOARD IS A GOOD WAY TO GAIN WAVE KNOWLEDGE AND ARE EASIER TO LEARN ON BEFORE YOU GO FOR THE SHORTIES.
WELL I HOPE THAT HELPS YOU ABIT??THERE ARE AFEW BOARDS OUT THERE FORSALE.I KNEW OF A GUY IN MICHIGAN THAT SHAPES BOARDS CRAIG STABINAW(SPELLING???)
I'M NOT SURE IF HE'S AROUND OR EVEN SHAPING ANYMORE???MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE KNOWS SOME FRESH INFO ON HIM.(I HAVEN'T SEEN HIM SINCE THE OLD DAYS IN SHEBOYGAN WIS.)
WELL THAT'S ALL I HAVE FOR YOU AT THIS TIME
   PEACE AND PATIENCE
        FINZ
 
 
 

Since no other westsiders have, I'll chime in for conversation sake...

Some spots are enhanced or caused by manmade structures here while we are also lucky to have natural formations that help the surf. A good portion of the shoreline from  Kenosha to Sheboygan has jetties which effect mostly shorebreaks. McKinley Cove, while not a great board riding spot, is a great manmade spot for bodyboarding and offers hollow waves in very shallow water. 

North Point is a manmade point created by landfill which juts out on the north end of Milwaukee Bay... North Point holds a bottom that is sometimes condusive to good rides on big souths... Recently an outside wave has formed around 1/4 mile outside of North Point... the wave is caused by a reflection wave that travels almost 1/2 mile up from the Milwaukee Pier and meets an incoming wave from the north. The wave jacks up and folds down on itself, sometimes with a clean lip during an offshore wind. While the wave offered me a good drop, it dissappears quickly and is very random...

Fox Point is a natural formation that offers great shelter from big NWs and Ns, allowing clean waves to filter in to Whitefish Bay and good rides at two popular north Milwaukee spots. You can really see the difference on NE days when the waves are choppy and sectioning...  there are also a few jetties around these breaks, although their influence isn't great.

I'll continue to rave about the elbow in Sheboygan, my best big wave sessions have been there. The pier offers great protection from south chop and allows clean waves to filter in. The pier also creates great sandy bottom contours for clean waves...

Although we have our share of manmade structures to create or help waves, we're lucky enough to have some natural wave helpers...

I on the other hand i do want waves bigger than 6 ft. I love being challenged, and tested. I could not survive on waist to chest high chop for the rest of my life. It does in fact, tide me over more or less(no pun intended). Mushy surf isnt what i dream of at night but hanging out with "the boys" at the boat club last saturday more than makes up for that. As for the ships and that other shit, like i said im a sucker for power, not chop. After one of those "big" storms passes.....then what? and for that matter what was happening wave wise before the winds crank up? nothing on both of the above. Im a surfer not a deck hand on the lakes, when was the last time that lake storms had their own time slot on the weather channel? If you had your choice (some people dont like me until july)where to surf and half a brain you would move to the ocean. Nuff said!
 

Session 1:  Morning glass

Location: classified
Time: 6:14 a.m. to 9:33 a.m. (CDT) 
Air temperature: 41°F 5°C 
Water Temperature: 45°F 7°C
Wind: calm increasing to 5 knot SW
sky: overcast
Wind wave height: 5 feet (1.5m) subsiding to 3 feet (0.9m) 
Wind wave direction: from the North 
Wind wave period: 8 seconds 
Wind wave description:  A peek in the middle with a left that peeled perfectly at one end and a super fast right at the other that had a few closeout sections.  Spray was blowing off the backs and the lip was pitching 1/4 the way down the face.  The waves were so glassy you could practicly see yourself in them. 

Safari Notes:  I stopped at New Buffalo on the way down.  It looked about 3 foot, but I may have seen a lull.  After the first session, I went to Tom Peeler's house, and we checked Porter Beach.  It had some 4 foot closeout barrels.  One Kayaker was charging it.  Tom was heading to Illinois anyway, a fisherman had told me that it was "windy as hell over in Chicago", and the waves seemed to be getting bigger the farther west I went, so we made the call to go to Shooters, and see if it was bigger. 

Session 2: Afternoon glass

Location:  Shooters
Time: approximately noon to 3 p.m. (CDT) 
Air temperature: 50°F 10°C
Water Temperature:  Timble covered it
Wind: From the NW at 5 knots
sky: some filtered sun
Wind wave height: 2 feet (0.6m) subsiding to 1 foot (0.3m) (so much for the "bigger" idea.) 
Wind wave direction: from the North 
Wind wave period: 3 seconds 
Wind wave description:  A nice left that just peeled and peeled down the line.  It offered a long ride considering how small it was.  Nice interval between sets, but the waves in the sets were a bit bunched up.
crowd:  Tom Peeler, Ben, and Chuck, who didn't go out 

Drew Marquis
 

Although I agree with the fact that the waves can get very extreme
on the great lakes i must refer you to the size of the waves from hurricane Luis in 97, and the halloween swell (many many others also), on the atlantic coasts. I seriously doubt you would have been able to get your sailboat out there or your longboard for that matter. When only a hanfull of locals were out! I can only imagine the freak storms in the pacific!
keeping it real..... matt 
Todd Fillingham (04/14/00 at 8:32 am) wrote:

>>I've posted this before, but hey, I don't mind doing it again :-))
>>
>>Back in the '60's, when I use to race sail boats quite a lot on Lake Michigan, there were quite a few sailors w/ a similar inferiority complex re. Lake Michigan as some GL surfers **may** have (no offense intended). At one point the Milwaukee Yacht Clup hosted an international regatta (some freaking one design, I can't remember the class) and I served as a volunteer on the committee boat (to start the races and take finishes).
>>
>>We had several days of NE winds 25 kts or more. Many of the sailors had just come from a regatta in the North Sea that was held under storm conditions. They all said that Lake Michigan was far worse due to the higher and steeper seas. These were experienced, world class sailors. Many opted not to race on certain days because of the wind and seas.
>>
>>Most of us here in Milwaukee stopped worrying about whether our waves were bigger than someone else's after that.
>>
>>Another story from those days: we use to enjoy taking a sail out on some really big days, I remember one day when we saw 14 foot, center board boats sailing over the sea wall on the waves, just north of the north gap.
>>
>>One more: I use to volunteer as a crew member to anyone needing to bring their boat down to Milwaukee from Door County, usually a 3 day sail. Many times I would be at the helm of 30 foot or so sail boats as we would surf down the face of these huge waves. The tiller would start to vibrate as we would exceed hull speed (theoretically impossible w/o planing) and our sails would empty as we were both riding down into a trough (waves blocking the wind) and approaching the wind speed. The trick was to align the boat w/ the wave before you caught it so that at the end of your ride you wouldn't broach (turn side to the waves). After hours of this you would be completely exhausted and start thinking of using a sea anchor. Luckily, the additional speed would get you to an opportunity to find the lee of the next point much quicker than your otherwise ETA.
>>
>>Granted, we won't be seeing Pacific swells breaking at 3xOH near shore, but the lake can produce some monster waves and has.
 
 

Hi Scott,

You don't need to go for length to get the most out of smaller short-period waves like the ones on the lakes.  Length is certainly an easy solution, but you will lose maneuverability.

The solution?  "The Fridge Door".  That's right, a board that is made to easily surf lower quality waves with good maneuverability, and at the same time its obscene looks resemble a fridge door.  Well, not really, but that's what my friend Lud, inventor, designer and shaper of the Fridge Door calls it.

A Fridge Door is roughly 8ft long, 23.5" wide, and really thick (I forget just how thick).  It has a wide square tail and a wide blunt nose with a bit of extra lift to avoid pearling on steeper waves.  There are two key features that make this board work: 1) It is "hippy", i.e. going from nose to tail, the width remains large further back than most boards, then tapers in starting say 2.5 ft from the tail.  This makes the board appear to have "hips".  This feature maintains large volume in the front half of the board (for wave catchability), while the taper maintains decent maneuverability near the tail.  2) Deep Vee.  "Vee" describes the cross-sectionsal shape of the board.  A board with absolutely no vee would have a flat bottom, whereas a keelboat (sailboat) has HUGE vee, if you get my point.  Though the deep vee makes the board a little twitchy, it also makes it easier to turn and helps hold a line while beating around a whitewater section.  NB. Don't mistake vee with rocke!
r, they are bottom features that run in perpendicular directions if you know what I mean.  To see rocker you would slice the board along the stringer, to see the vee you would slice the board perpendicular to the stringer. 

If I were you, I would get some guy in California to make you an 8' board that matches the above descripotion.  If you want I can send you exact measurements for the shaper to follow.  It should be cheaper to get a board made than to go buy a new big name longboard.

Good luck,

John

To put it in perspective, the hurricanes that hit the east coast are nothing on a worldwide scale.  Sure, the significant wave height may have gotten up to say 40ft or so in the Holloween storm (was that '91?), but in some regions of the ocean the waves are that size for several months of the year.

Todd made a good reference to the steepness of the waves on the lakes.  That's what makes the lake storms so dramatic and difficult to navigate, the steepness of the seas/waves due to great heights and short periods.

John